Dr. Matthew T Mbu, First Republic High Commissioner of Nigeria to London and Minister of Foreign Affairs under Gen. Ibrahim Babangida believes President Goodluck Jonathan should concentrate on governance and forget about the issue of zoning of the 2011 presidency for now. According to him, it is Nigerians that will choose who will be their president. Mbu believes the zoning issue is a distraction and a comouflage by the north to hold onto power. When GEOFFREY EKENNA and Olusola Sanni met him in Lagos, he spoke on these and other issues.
You spoke of how you borrowed £12, 000 to get this piece of land even as a serving minister. Today, it is difficult to see people in government doing such. The question is at what point did things turn this bad for Nigeria to the extent that we are now synonymous with corruption?
It is an interesting question to ask because it baffles me. In our time, the quest for public office was not for money. The high taste we all had was for the acquisition of knowledge. We wanted to be as knowledgeable as Zik, as knowledgeable as Awolowo and to be that educated, it means reading and reading. For instance, I said here that as at the time I was appointed a minister to go to London, I had BA Intermediate in Law. I did my LLM after that. We were concerned with probity. You were a public man. Money was not an attractive taste at all. In fact, when out of office, I had to go and file my tax returns, they used to ask me, ‘why do you do this always?’. I tell them, I was a public officer, a minister. In case you get me exposed, it will be a public shame. They tell me ‘your colleagues, we look for them to come and file returns, but you come here to give us returns, why?’ I told them it is probity. I am a public man. I mustn’t be seen to be cheating. That was the way that we were. Could you believe that as a High Commissioner in London, I bought Nigeria a house in London, freehold, it is still there, the Nigerian House in London. You know how much I paid for it? £35, 000. When I left, they said they were doing some maintenance job on it and they paid twelve and half million pounds for something I bought for £35, 000. Then, hostels which I bought, which I used as tributes, Nigerian students hostels. Those three houses today, you cannot get them for five million pounds. You know how much I paid for it them? Eight and half thousand pounds. They call it Matthew Mbu house. It is not my house, it is for students. When we wanted to buy a ship from England for the Nigerian Navy, I asked Sir Abubakar Tafawa Balewa, that I was going to Geneva, can I use the opportunity to ask for the prices of this ship in other places, the Naval Ship, the Nigerian flag ship? He said yes, I am free to do so. I went to Holland, met their Minister of Defence, who recently became the Prime Minister of Holland; we became friends. I negotiated and I bought a better equipped ship for Nigeria at £2.8m. I mean a better equipped ship and what was the terms of payment? Ten years interest free. And on top of that, he gave two ships free as a sign of friendship. I came back with three ships for the price of one. I was so happy saving £3.7m for Nigeria. I was so happy that I did it for Nigeria. During our time, when they are making budget, I will always say, don’t give much money, don’t forget I have so much unspent funds in the budget. But I see them adjusting the budget everyday today. That wasn’t in our time. We used to tell them not to give us more money because we have unspent funds. The ostentation we see in our political class today, shocks me really. It wasn’t like that in our time. In our time, we were more dedicated to working. There were few people we looked at as the 10 per centers. They were people who collected commissions from contractors. But today, it is everywhere. When there was a coup, my friend, Ojukwu, said to me, we went through your account, we did not see anything outside your salary. Don’t you have anybody that pays something to you? I said no. We were earning about £250 pounds. That was enough. In fact, late Michael Imoudu said we were earning too much. But we made do with that. We believed it was enough.
What was the difference between when you served Sir Abubakar Tafawa Balewa and when you served as a Foreign Minister under Gen. Ibrahim Babangida?
The difference was that I had the largest budget but again I was living in the past. My budget was next in size to I think, Defence. But I was more concerned about saving Nigeria. We were called a pariah state and I was more concerned with saving Nigeria. Do you know my colleagues in the ministries, for the period we were there, what they did, I couldn’t believe it. So, I remain a pauper till date. One of the things that gives me joy was the friendship I had with the British Foreign Minister, Lord Herd. My joy was that my son here, and his son came together. My son married and Lord Herd’s son was his best man and when Lord Herd’s son married, my son was his best man. So, Lord Herd’s grandchildren and my grandchildren are friends. When I went to bring Lord Herd from the airport when he came to Nigeria, within that space of time from the Airport to Abuja, we have finished discussing Nigeria’s problem. I was traveling and in London, I saw Nigerians being held up for about two hours, being checked. I complained that these are not the people. The military men that are causing us these problems go with diplomatic passports, you don’t check them. I told Lord Herd, why should you do this? Please help me and clear all these. When I was coming back, I saw Nigerians again and they told me, Chief, ‘What is happening? It is now free; we are not being screened much’. I laughed. I did it to save ordinary Nigerians. Again, another thing I did was to stop this immigration form where they ask why are you returning to Nigeria? I said it was an abomination. You are a Nigerian, carrying a Nigerian passport and they are asking you why are you returning to Nigeria? I said we should stop it because it was not good. Nigerians should return anytime they want. It has been removed and nobody is asking about it. Some people still print the forms- they are thieves.
You served under Babangida and you are from the South-South. President Goodluck Jonathan is your son. In the race for the presidency in 2011, Babangida is already in the race. Jonathan will soon declare his intentions to run. How are you going to reconcile the two persons? You have sympathy for both of them. So which one are you supporting?
Listen, there is no conflict in it. Jonathan or Babangida, I am comfortable with both of them. My advice to President Jonathan is that he has a job to perform. He has given himself seven-point agenda. I gave him only five. I said if only he can perform only this five. I can name them for you. One is light. He has to do something about it. During his time as the president, I told him, do something about it. Two, is the issue of security that concerns you and I as ordinary citizens. This kidnapping must stop. It is giving us a bad image. Thirdly, corruption. There must be a punishment for corruption which must be commensurate with the magnitude of the crime that was committed. It is not good that people are stealing and you do nothing to them. They steal this and that and are still working the streets free. Youths are seeing them and you do nothing. So, how do you stop corruption? Except if sanctions are giving for corruption, we are wasting of time. Fourthly, I told him, Niger Delta. I campaigned for the peace in the region. Thank God you are there today. Do something; have a programme which people will see. The amnesty is there. It is a wonderful window of opportunity. Use the amnesty to address the problems of the Niger Delta. I said look, start doing these things. Let people see that you are working in those directions. The fifth one is the electoral reform. I gave him these points. If you do these within this period or seen to be tackling them, let the Nigerian people decide. Let them pick their leaders. Leave zoning, don’t say anything on it. It is a camouflage. The issues that are bothering Nigerians today are the things I have spelt out – law and order, security, Niger Delta, electoral reforms. These are the issues that Nigerians want to tackle. What is zoning? If you have a good president, will you think about zoning? If the country is moving, young ones have employment; everybody is happy with security; you can go home without fearing kidnapp and armed robbery, on a good road, we won’t remember zoning. That is what I told him. I have no fears with who should be my president. I told Jonathan, not to allow himself to be distracted by something else. He should concentrate on these issues and forget about zoning.
As the Chairman of the Southern Forum, how do you see the emergence of Jonathan as the president? Is it a blessing? And How would you respond to some northern elements who are hammering on zoning?
As a leader of the group, my advocacy was for justice and equality for the citizens of Nigeria especially for the south-south zone. I think that we have got good men and women who can make president for Nigeria. I did not say ‘it must be this person or that person if not go to hell’. I did not say that. But we are lucky today to have one of us for that post. I not only wish him luck but success and God’s guidance. Let him have the feeling to what Nigerians want and respond to it. Zoning, I said, is a camouflage. Look, before Jonathan came, we had independence for how many years? Forty nine years. Of the 49 years, only Obasanjo had about 11 years. Ironsi had just six months. Who were the occupants of that office for the rest of the period? Northerners. What did they do? Will it make any difference? So, it becomes ‘if it does not come back the heavens will fall’. Zoning became an issue. Did the heavens fall in those 38 years? Were there no zones for the period they were there? You tell me about zoning. What is zoning. In the context of Nigeria today, is that the issue? There are issues on ground. For instance, electoral reform. That Togo can conduct election, Ghana can conduct an election and we cannot conduct one is a shame. Stop the restiveness of youths in the Niger Delta- where the oil is coming from. You cannot expect oil to be coming from there if there is no peace in the area. We need it for development. Jonathan still has time. Yar’Adua died May 5. He entered May 6. Let him do the ones he can. Let me quote Napoleon. He said, “The possibility we can tackle. The impossibility can wait”. Let Jonathan as president do those things he believes he can do. He must be seen to be addressing them and the ones he cannot , let him leave. That is my advice.